Rebuttal Of Nathan Roberts, Author Of The Doctrine Of The Shape Of The Earth

by David on November 21, 2017

This website exposes the flat earth deception and proves that the earth is globe shaped.

Nathan Roberts wrote a flat earth book called, “The Doctrine of the Shape of the Earth: A Comprehensive Biblical Perspective”; he has a YouTube channel named YourCurvelessEarth; and a website called FlatEarthDoctrine.com.

Nathan commented on this website with the following message:

Hey David! Just corrected you via 2 Timothy 3:16-17 on Facebook in this post:

Just want to NOT thank you for taking God’s Word OUT OF CONTEXT, and spreading your confusion about God’s from yourself to others. I pray you will repent and remove this website immediately. May Yahweh bless your obedience!

Nathan

Note: My comments are in red.

“Just want to NOT thank you“?  What kind of comment is that?  It reveals his illogical mindset.

You will see in the verse study, that it is the flat earthers who are taking the Word out of context.

None of his explanations changed my viewpoint, as he misrepresented what I said on the Biblical Proofs Of The Globe Earth page; and he made illogical explanations.

Here is what Nathan posted on his Facebook post.

A loved one who is investigating a Biblical perspective of Flat Earth stumbled upon David Nikao’s website called flatearthdeception.com. His website is geared towards propagating a globe shaped earth with everything, including, scripture used out of context. There is a lot of content on the website, however, the focus of this rebuttal will be towards one particular page that is titled “Biblical Proofs of the Globe Earth.”

Sadly, he just ignores all of the proofs on the home page, which prove that the Earth is not flat.

Right off the bat, David attempts to unite and marry all Flat Earthers to the “Flat Earth Society” in order to quickly discredit the Flat Earth movement, as well as, anyone who associates himself as a believer of a Flat Earth. He does this so subtly by drawing a parallel between the beliefs of all Flat Earthers in alignment with that of an evolutionist when he states:

“Note: Flat earthers cite that the enemy is covering up the flat earth theory, to hide the Creator; but Daniel Shenton, who heads the Flat Earth Society, is an evolutionist, so that rational has no merit.”

If David were better studied, he’d have known that no true Flat Earther exists within the “Flat Earth Society,” because we know that it is a controlled opposition group. At best, the Flat Earth Society provides half-truths. So, any person researching Flat Earth for the first time may stumble upon them and quickly loose interest since most of what they present is so incredibly ridiculous.

Point taken, I removed the reference to Daniel Shenton.  Thanks for helping make the page better!

David believes that Isaiah 40:22 does is NOT in the slightest pointing to the earth as having a circular disk attribute to it.

The ‘he’ that is sitting on the circle of Isaiah 40:22 is our Creator. He is not sitting upon a circular flat earth. He is sitting in the heavens, where the circle of the ecliptic displays the narrative of redemption through the constellations.

Instead, he believes the “CIRCLE” that is referred to in Isaiah 40:22 is pointing to the Mazzoroth, a constellation, in the sky. Interestingly, he first says, “Let’s back up to get the context of the verse.” and then he takes the scriptures OUT OF CONTEXT. Because, to make his case that “CIRCLE” is referring to the constellations he must go to Job 38:32, which just so happens to be in a completely different book in the Bible.

He misrepresented my explanation.  I did not go back to Job right away, I went back to the previous verses in Isaiah, as they only cite verse 22.

And the Bible is it’s own dictionary, so proclaiming that a verse in Job can’t help us understand the passage in Isaiah, is bad theology.

From Job 38:32, the word “Mazzoroth” is from Strong’s Hebrew Concordance lexicon # 4216 (OT – Hebrew). Here is the full definition:

mazzarahmaz-zaw-raw’ – apparently from ‘nazar’ (5144) in the sense of distinction; some noted constellation (only in the plural), perhaps collectively, the zodiac:–Mazzoroth. Compare ‘mazzalah’ (4208).

From Isaiah 40:22, the word “circle” from Strong’s Hebrew Concordance lexicon # 2329 (OT – Hebrew). Here is the full definition:

chuwgkhoog – from ‘chuwg’ (2328); a circle:–circle, circuit, compass.

How in the HECK does David draw a correlation between “Mazzoroth” to mean “chuwg,” and visa versa?

WOW!  Really?  Chuwg means ‘a circle’ or ‘a circuit’.  The Mazzoroth of the 12 constellations is on the circle of the ecliptic.  Hello?!?

In Isaiah 40:26 the Father told Isaiah to look UP to the stars, the ecliptic circle, which proclaim the redemption story!  “Lift up your eyes on high and see. Who has created these? He who is bringing out their host by number, He calls them all by name, by the greatness of His might and the strength of His power – not one is missing.” 

David completely changes the topic of discussion from, “Does ‘chuwg’ mean circle or ball?” to something almost as silly as “Why do dogs like flowers?”

He can’t see the direct relationship between the word chuwg/circle, and the circuit of the constellations above; and then he makes it seem like I have an irrational mind.  

Why does he do this? What is his motivation for taking the scriptures so far out of context, or is he really that horrible with conveying what the word of God is truly stating in its context? If he is, why is anyone even paying his website any attention?

My motivation is finding and presenting Biblical truth, as opposed to flat earthers, who take verses out of context.

David also fails to discuss the latter part of Isaiah 40:22 which states, “…that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:”

I wonder if Isaiah knew what a tent looks like? If he was attempting to place a tent over a globe-shaped earth, well, God probably should have given him just a bit more inspiration to realize that it just doesn’t work that way. A tent is used over a flat surface, as a curtain that is spread out for someone to dwell in.

Nathan applies flat earth logic to what a tent is used for, implying that because the ground should be flat for a real tent, that must apply to this tent. Ugh!

The word ‘tent’ can mean ‘tabernacle’, so the stars are a tabernacle which surrounds the Father, who sits on the stars, not on Earth.

Wait a minute; do you think…Well that may imply, that…Yeah, the earth may be FLAT? What a profound thought…to read the scripture within its context and allow it to mean what is says and say what it means.

More of his mocking spirit, sad story! Especially since it is he who is taking Scripture out of context.

In the book titled “The Doctrine of the Shape of the Earth: A Comprehensive Biblical Perspective” it dives deep into the scriptures to see if God’s Word at all gives us a clue or a hint about the shape of his earth. And, there is an entire sub-chapter, Ball vs. Circle, dedicated to elaborating on Isaiah 40:22.

Aside from Isaiah 40:22 (which David completely took out of context), he uses Bible verses that are very weak arguments for doctrine of the shape of the earth. Such as:

“Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.” – Job 38:4

“Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.” – Job 38:18

Those verses were cited, as flat earthers proclaim that the words ‘foundations’ and ‘breadth’ point to a flat earth.  But they are talking about the creation of the earth, not the physical foundation.

Either he hasn’t truly done a comprehensive study on this doctrine or he is deliberately creating a distraction, and I truly am not sure which it is?

The Biblical Proofs Of The Globe Earth study proves that I have done a comprehensive study, and my debunking of Nathan’s supposed 200 Bible verses that prove that the Earth is flat, does the same.

I could go on and on and on about all the ways David Nikao has completely misrepresented God’s Word as it concerns the true cosmology, though each of his misinterpretations have already been more than accounted for in “The Doctrine of the Shape of the Earth: A Comprehensive Biblical Perspective.” However, there is just one more issue I must address prior to closing this thought.

David proclaims that Revelation 20:9 is referring to a mountain or a plateau, not a flat earth. Although, that is EXACTLY what it says, flat earth.

“And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from Yahweh out of heaven, and devoured them.” – Revelation 20:9

The word “breadth” is from Strong’s Greek Dictionary lexicon # 4114. It is defined as follows:

platosplat’-os: from [platuV] – platus 4116; width:–breadth.

Wonder what Strong’s Greek Dictionary lexicon #4116 means? Here is the definition:

platusplat-oos’ – from [plassw] – plasso 4111; spread out “flat” (“plot”), i.e. broad:–wide.

So, in context the word “breadth” means “spread out FLAT.” Which means Revelation 20:9 could have just as well be written as “And they went up on the spread out FLAT of the earth…”

LOL! Why would they have to go UP if the Earth was all flat?  

The verse is not declaring that the Earth is flat, but that the city of Jerusalem is placed high up on a mountain plateau.  

I just don’t understand why David Nikao has gone to such great lengths to obstruct God’s Word, and in the process create division and confusion around God’s word which is ALWAYS Faithful and ALWAYS True?

Why? Because of illogical people like you Nathan, who have manipulated the understanding of Bible verses, and then proclaim to people that the Bible proves that the earth is earth.  

You are the one who is creating division and confusion, because it is you, and people like you, who are misrepresented the Bible!

The Doctrine of the Shape of the Earth: A Comprehensive Biblical Perspective” has curated over 200 plus Bible verses that point to the earth being stationary and flat with a dome over our head.

What’s even more odd about David’s website is what is written at the footer of the page: “Yahuah, I pray that you bind Satan, his demons and his spirits, and cast them away from this website, and from the visitors of this website. I pray that you grant the visitors of this website eye salve, to see the truth, that they would repent and be your witnesses! I pray this in the name of Yahusha Messiah.”

David Nikao believes so wholeheartedly, and wishes for others to join him, that flat earth is a deception that he publishes a prayer to ward off Biblical truth that the earth is stationary and flat. This guy is so confused.

I did my research, I prayed for truth, and I was given the explanations on this website.

My prayer is that the visitors will find out the truth about this topic.  There’s nothing confusing about that!

Although, I have also run into “Christians” who proclaim flat earth doctrine to be Satanic. Are you serious???

What he needs, along with every teacher out there who preaches against flat earth doctrine, is a good “correcting” for causing such division around God’s Word and the people who are searching for guidance and he leading them astray.

Notice how he uses the word ‘doctrine’ as if it’s God ordained.  I will stand before my Messiah with what I’ve presented here.  You, and all of the flat earth teachers, are the one’s who are misleading people.

“All scripture is given by inspiration of Yahweh, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of Elohim may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” – 2 Timothy 3:16-17

HERE are some Bible verses you should prayerfully consider studying while investigating the doctrine of the shape of the earth…

UPDATE: I commented on his Facebook post, with a link to this rebuttal, telling him that none of the verses that he cites proves that the Earth is flat, and that he is the one who is misleading people.  And he deleted my comment and has blocked me from commenting again.  Sad story!

Keep in mind that he is proclaiming that ALL of these verses prove that the Earth is flat.  You will see that in fact, NONE of them prove that the Earth is flat; and most of them have nothing to do with the shape of the Earth at all.

Earth Created Before the Sun: Genesis 1:1-19

The Earth being created before the sun may point to a geocentric Earth, but it does not prove that the Earth is flat.

Universe is Complete: Genesis 2:1

The heavens and earth being finished is not about the shape of the Earth.

Earth Measurements Unknown: Job 38:4-5, Jeremiah 31:37, Proverbs 25:3

Job 38:4-5 is not declaring that the Earth can’t be measured; but it is pointing to the One who did measure it all out during its creation. 

 Jeremiah 31:37 is about the heavens being measured, not Earth.  

Proverbs 25:3 says that the height of heaven is unsearchable. On the flat domed Earth, the height of the heaven is limited; but not on the globe Earth.

Earth is a Disk/Circle, not a ball: Isaiah 40:22, Job 38:13-14

Isaiah 40:22 is pointing up to the circle of the ecliptic, on which the constellations travel around the globe earth; to tell the story of our redemption.  The Creator does not sit on the flat earth; so the circle is not pointing to the flat earth, but to the ecliptic in the heavens, which are a tabernacle of stars, on which the Creator sits.

Job 38:13-14 is declaring that the Earth is turning (spinning) toward the rising Sun, “It is turned as clay to the seal”.  The Earth is changed, it is transformed, as the sun (the seal) removes the darkness.

Earth Measured with a Line, not a curve: Job 38:4-5

The word ‘line’ is pointing to a cord that is used for measuring.  A cord can be placed on a curved surface, to measure the total distance.  A line is not always straight.  

Paths are Straight, not curved: 1 Samuel 6:12, Psalm 5:8, Psalm 27:11, Isaiah 40:3, Jeremiah 31:9, Matthew 3:3, Mark 1:3, Luke 3:4, John 1:23, Acts 16:11, Acts 21:1, Hebrews 12:13

Proclaiming that all paths are straight, does not prove that the earth is flat. 

The irony is that if you travel East or West on the supposed flat earth map, your path is not straight, as East and West curve around the North Pole. 

These verses are obviously not talking about the form of the Earth. And the fact that they are declaring to make the path straight, tells us that paths are normally not straight. 

“And the kine took the straight way to the way of Bethshemesh, and went along the highway, lowing as they went, and turned not aside to the right hand or to the left; and the lords of the Philistines went after them unto the border of Bethshemesh.” 1 Samuel 6:12

“Lead me, O LORD, in thy righteousness because of mine enemies; make thy way straight before my face.” Psalm 5:8

“Teach me thy way, O LORD, and lead me in a plain path, because of mine enemies.” Psalm 27:11

“The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.” Isaiah 40:3

“They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.” Jeremiah 31:9

“For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.” Matthew 3:3

“The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.” Mark 1:3

“As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Luke 3:4

“He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.” John 1:23

“Therefore loosing from Troas, we came with a straight course to Samothracia, and the next day to Neapolis;” Acts 16:11

“And it came to pass, that after we were gotten from them, and had launched, we came with a straight course unto Coos, and the day following unto Rhodes, and from thence unto Patara:” Acts 21:1

“And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.” Hebrews 12:13

Nathan cites them so that he can claim that there are hundreds of verses which proclaim that the Earth is flat; but he is taking them out of context, as we can clearly see.

Waters are Straight, not curved: Job 37:10

“By the breath of God frost is given: and the breadth of the waters is straitened.” 

The previous verses in Job proclaimed cold winds coming out of the North. 

The word ‘frost’ can be rendered as ‘ice’; and the waters become solid ice, instead of moving with the winds. 

Once again, Nathan is taking the meaning of the verse out of context, as it is not declaring that all water on Earth is straight.

Earthquakes shake Earth, and does not move: 2 Samuel 22:8, Isaiah 13:13, Revelation 6:12-13

These verses do not prove that the Earth is flat.

2 Samuel 22:3 simply says that the Earth shook and trembled, “Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth.”

Isaiah 13:13 says that the Earth shall remove OUT OF HER PLACE, “Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.” 

Earthquakes in the prophecy can represent great political upheavals.  The earthquake of Revelation 6:12-13 was pointing to political upheaval in the declaring Roman Empire; as a result of the first five seal judgments. 

Eastern Emperor Constantine defeated Diocletian’s army in 312 A.D., which ended the persecutions. Diocletian (the Sun) was so panic stricken, he died insane. Constantine defeated emperors Maxentius and Licinius to become sole ruler of both west and east by 324 A.D. The Roman leaders (stars) fell and their power receded as a scroll. The mountains and islands that were moved out of place, were the countries and people that were affected by this political change. Read Revelation 6 – 6th Seal Earthquake

Earth is fixed and immovable: Psalm 33:9, Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, Psalm 104:5, Psalm 119:89-90, Isaiah 45:18, Zechariah 1:11, 1 Chronicles 16:30

One can argue that these verses point to a stationary, geocentric Earth; but they say nothing about its shape, so they are not proofs that it is flat.

“For he spake, and it was (done); he commanded, and it stood fast.” Psalm 33:9

“The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.” Psalm 93:1

“Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.” Psalm 96:10

“Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.” Psalm 104:5

“For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth.” Psalm 119:89-90

“For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.” Isaiah 45:18

“And they answered the angel of the LORD that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest.” Zechariah 1:11

“Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.” 1 Chronicles 16:30

“Be still, and know that I am God”: Psalm 46:10

How is that a proof that the Earth is flat?

Earth has Pillars, and hangs on nothing: 1 Samuel 2:8, Job 9:6, Job 26:7, Psalm 75:3, 2 Peter 3:5

Flat earthers proclaim that the flat earth is mounted on top of pillars, which makes no sense, because in architecture, pillars set on top of the building foundation.  What are the supporting pillars of the flat earth sitting on? Nothing!

The first part of 1 Samuel 2:8 tells you that the latter part is not talking about the creation/design of the earth.

Rather it is talking about the leaders of the earth, the pillars, who Elohim controls to uphold civil order in the world.

The previous verse is talking about raising people up in status, and bringing them down.

The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.” 1 Samuel 2:7

“Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.” Job 9:6

“He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.” Job 26:7 The north pole is the top of the globe Earth, so it makes sense to mention it, as it’s the logical place to hang a ball (such as a Christmas ornament) from.  The earth hanging from nothing does not prove that it’s flat.

“The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.” Psalm 75:3. Was the earth really dissolved? No!  It’s speaking of judgment on a wicked world, and the righteous men (pillars) being held up by the Father.

“For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:” 2 Peter 3:5 I’m not sure how this proves that the Earth is flat, or even a globe for that matter.

Earth has a Face (a geometrical flat surface): Genesis 1:29, Genesis 4:14, Genesis 6:1, Genesis 6:7, Genesis 7:3, Genesis 7:4, Genesis 8:9, Genesis 11:8, Genesis 11:9, Genesis 41:56, Exodus 32:12, Exodus 33:16, Numbers 12:3, Deuteronomy 6:15, Deuteronomy 7:6, 1 Samuel 20:15, 1 Kings 13:34, Job 37:12, Psalm 104:30, Jeremiah 25:26, Jeremiah 28:16, Ezekiel 34:6, Ezekiel 38:20, Ezekiel 39:14, Amos 9:6, Amos 9:8, Zechariah 5:3

A ball has a face too.  The face of the moon is the side that is facing us.  So these verses do not prove that the Earth is flat.

The Hebrew word for ‘face’ in Genesis 1:29 is 6440 paniym – plural (but always as singular) of an unused noun (paneh {paw-neh’}; from 6437); the face (as the part that turns);

Waters have a Face (a geometrical flat surface): Genesis 1:2, Genesis 7:18, Job 38:30

The word ‘face’ is simply pointing to the surface of the water, so it doesn’t prove that the Earth is flat.

“And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.” Genesis 1:2 

“And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.” Genesis 7:18 

“The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.” Job 38:30 

Earth has Ends: Deuteronomy 28:49, Deuteronomy 28:64, Deuteronomy 33:17, 1 Samuel 2:10, Job 37:3, Job 38:13, Psalm 46:9, Psalm 48:10, Psalm 59:13, Psalm 61:2, Psalm 65:5, Psalm 67:7, Psalm 72:8, Psalm 98:3, Psalm 135:7, Proverbs 8:29, Proverbs 17:24, Proverbs 30:4, Isaiah 5:26, Isaiah 26:15, Isaiah 40:28, Isaiah 41:5, Isaiah 41:9, Isaiah 42:10, Isaiah 43:6, Isaiah 45:22, Isaiah 48:20, Isaiah 49:6, Isaiah 52:10, Jeremiah 10:13, Jeremiah 16:19, Jeremiah 25:31, Jeremiah 25:33, Jeremiah 51:16, Daniel 4:22, Micah 5:4, Zechariah 9:10, Acts 13:47

The irony of course is that flat earthers have no photos of the supposed end of the Earth, at the ice wall.

The word ‘ends’ can mean farthest and uttermost

Deuteronomy 28:49 foretold that the Babylonians and Romans would come from afar, to desolate Jerusalem.  Did they come from the ice wall?  No!

Deuteronomy 28:64 says that the Father scattered the Israelites from one end of the earth even until the other.  Did He put some on one side of the ice wall, and others on the other side of the Earth on the ice wall?  No!

Deuteronomy 33:17, “with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth:” describes the Father causing the Israelites to push the Canaanites to the end of the land of Canaan; not to some ice wall.

1 Samuel 2:10, “The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken to pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder upon them: the LORD shall judge the ends of the earth” is not about the Father judging the ice wall of the flat earth.

Do you see how ridiculous these examples are?  They are not pointing to the edge of the supposed flat Earth, to an ice wall.

Earth has Corners: Isaiah 11:12, Revelation 7:1

Flat earthers teach that the flat earth is a circle, which of course has no corners.  So to make these verses work, they add corners to the outside edges, which are outside of the dome.  That makes no sense!

Were the outcasts of Israel and the dispersed of Judah living outside the dome, on the corners of the flat earth?  No, that is absurd!

“And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.” Isaiah 11:12

The four corners are outside the flat earth dome, so does it make sense that the angels are holding back the four winds outside of the dome?  No!

“And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.” Revelation 7:1

Firmament/Dome: Genesis 1:6-8, Genesis 1:14-18, Genesis 1:20, Genesis 7:11, Genesis 8:2, Job 37:18, Psalm 19:1, Psalm 150:1, Isaiah 40:22, Ezekiel 1:22-26, Ezekiel 10:1, Daniel 12:3

Genesis 1:8 tells us that the firmament is called ‘heaven’. “And God called the firmament Heaven.” 

Genesis 1:14-18 tells us that the sun and moon are in the heavens.

Genesis 1:20 tells us that birds fly in the heavens.  

Genesis 7:11 points to the moisture, which was collected in the atmosphere, in clouds in the heavens, which was poured out in the Earth.

Genesis 8:2 simply says that it stopped raining.

Job 37:18 is a key verse, which they proclaim points to a glass dome.  They did not have glass mirrors in Job’s day, so they beat metal into sheets and polished it, to be able to see their reflection.   The King James translators were describing a mirror, as they had glass in their days.  It’s simply pointing to the heavens which shine down on us, reflecting the glory of creation.  “Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?”

Psalm 19:1 declares the glory of the stars in heaven. 

Psalm 150:1 declares that we should praise the Creator of the starry heavens.

Isaiah 40:22 declares that the Creator is sitting upon the circle of the Earth.  Is he actually sitting on the Earth?  No!  It is declaring that He is sitting in the heavens, in the tabernacle of stars which surround the Earth (as a tent), in the midst of the 12 constellations which are on the circular ecliptic (the circle of the Earth), which have proclaimed the redemption story since creation.

“It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:”

Ezekiel 1:22-26 is not describing the heavens that we see, with the sun and moon in it; but rather another expanse around the throne of our Creator.

Ezekiel 10:1 Like Ezekiel 1, it is not describing the heavens that we see, with the sun and moon in it; but rather another expanse around the throne of our Creator.

Daniel 12:3 The saints are portrayed as stars, which shine in the heaven of our Creator. 

Sun Moves, not the Earth: Genesis 15:12, Genesis 15:17, Genesis 19:23, Genesis 32:31, Exodus 17:12, Exodus 22:3, Exodus 22:26, Leviticus 22:7, Numbers 2:3, Numbers 21:11, Numbers 34:15, Deuteronomy 4:41, Deuteronomy 4:47, Deuteronomy 11:30, Deuteronomy 16:6, Deuteronomy 23:11, Deuteronomy 24:13, Deuteronomy 24:15, Joshua 1:15, Joshua 8:29, Joshua 10:27, Joshua 12:1, Joshua 13:5, Joshua 19:12, Joshua 19:27, Joshua 19:34, Judges 8:13, Judges 9:33, Judges 14:18, Judges 19:14, Judges 20:43, 2 Samuel 2:24, 2 Samuel 3:35, 2 Samuel 23:4, 1 Kings 22:36, 2 Chronicles 18:34, Psalm 50:1, Psalm 113:3, Ecclesiastes 1:5, Isaiah 41:25, Isaiah 45:6, Isaiah 59:19, Jeremiah 15:9, Daniel 6:14, Amos 8:9, Jonah 4:8, Micah 3:6, Nahum 3:17, Malachi 1:11, Matthew 5:45, Mark 16:2, Ephesians 4:26, James 1:11

All of these verses describe the sun rising up or going down.  Does the sun ever  ‘rise up’ or ‘go down’ on the flat Earth model?  No!  They proclaim that it moves in a circle above the flat surface; so the words rise up and goes down cannot apply to the flat Earth model sun.

“And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.” Genesis 15:12

“And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.” Genesis 15:17

 

“For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles;” Malachi 1:11

As for the sun moving and not the Earth, the same thing can be explained on a geocentric globe earth, so it doesn’t prove that the Earth is flat. 

Sun STOPS moving: Isaiah 60:20, Job 9:7, Joshua 10:12-14, Habakkuk 3:11

The same thing could happen on a geocentric globe earth, so it doesn’t prove that the Earth is flat. 

Sun moves BACKWARDS: 2 Kings 20:8-11

The same thing could happen on a geocentric globe earth, so it doesn’t prove that the Earth is flat. 

Moon has its own Light: Genesis 1:16, Isaiah 13:10, Isaiah 30:26, Isaiah 60:19-20, Jeremiah 31:35, Matthew 24:29, Mark 13:24, Ezekiel 32:7, Revelation 21:23

Flat earthers have to dismiss that the sun illuminates the moon, because it causes problems on their flat earth model. The irony here is that they cannot explain how the moon illuminates itself, or how it displays the evolving phases.  

And we can clearly see the direct relationship of the New Moon being located near the setting sun; and for the next 14 days, the moon is 1/14th further away from the sun at sunset, and it is 1 1/4th more illuminated.  After 7 days, the waxing half moon is directly overhead at sunset. After 14 days, the full moon is rising in the East at sunset.  It’s not rocket science, the sun clearly illuminates the moon! 

In each of these verses, the sun being dimmed, results in the moon also being dimmed; showing the direct relationship, as the sun illuminates the moon.  Just as the Sun of Righteousness, Messiah, illuminates us and shines through us.

Isaiah 13:10 is not speaking literally, but metaphorically of the leaders of the tribe of Judah, the High Priest (sun) and Sanhedrin (moon) being removed from power, as they incurred the anger and wrath of the Father.

Isaiah 30:26 is not speaking literally, but is a hyperbolical expression, of the most glorious and comfortable condition of God’s church, far surpassing what it was in former ages. Messiah is our Sun of Righteousness, our High Priest; which is far superior to the Israelite High Priest.

Isaiah 60:19-20 speaks of the day when the Father and Son will illuminate the New Jerusalem.

Jeremiah 31:35 says that the moon and stars are given for lights at night. It does not say that the moon provides it’s own light.  Just like the stars, it reflects the sun light.

Matthew 24:29 and Luke 13:24 are talking about the Jewish political leaders; the High Priest (Sun), the Sanhedrin (the moon) and the priest system (the stars); being removed from power (dimmed) in 70 A.D., when the Roman army desolated the temple, city and Jerusalem. Read The Sun, Moon And Stars

Ezekiel 32:7 says that He will cover the sun and the moon will not give it’s light; so we see the direct relationship.  It did not say that He would cover the moon, just the sun.  And by covering the sun, the moon cannot reflect the light of the sun. 

Revelation 21:23 simply says that there will be no need for the sun and moon to shine in New Jerusalem, as the Father and Son will illuminate it. It is not declaring that the moon had provided its own light.

High Altitude Perspectives: Daniel 4:11, Daniel 4:20, Matthew 4:8

Nathan thinks that a high altitude perspective proves that the Earth is flat; but the verses prove that is not true.

Daniel 4:22 declares that the giant tree of Daniel 4:11, 20; symbolizes king Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon, so it’s not talking about a real giant tree,“It is thou, O king, that art grown and become strong: for thy greatness is grown, and reacheth unto heaven, and thy dominion to the end of the earth.”

For Matthew 4:8, when Satan took Messiah to a high mountain and showed Him all of the kingdoms of the world; there is no mountain on Earth which can see all of the kingdoms of the world, so it doesn’t prove that the Earth is flat. 

He was either pointing to that region of the Earth, Judea and the surrounding nations, which were controlled by the mighty Roman Empire.  Or he was able to give a kind of visionary representation of all of the nations of the Earth. 

Everyone Sees Jesus: Revelation 1:7

:See, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye shall see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth shall mourn because of Him. Yes, Amĕn.:

But that doesn’t prove the flat earth, because there is no place on the flat earth where Messiah could return, that every person in every country could see.   Can you see the sky over Jerusalem from where you live? No!

New Jerusalem, the HUGE cube: Revelation 21:15-17

The shape of New Jerusalem has nothing to do with the shape of the Earth. 

“Breadth”, spread out FLAT, of the Earth: Revelation 20:9

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The Greek word for earth is ge, is not referring to the whole earth, but to the land of Jerusalem.

ge = which means: by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application):—country, earth(-ly), ground, land, world.

Just as the city of Jerusalem is set up on a hill, the New Jerusalem will also be set up high.

The armies of the enemies will go up to Jerusalem, to seek to attack it.

Matthews Bible from 1537 says “Flat Earth”: 2 Samuel 11:11

The King James say ‘open fields’, “And Uriah said unto David, The ark, and Israel, and Judah, abide in tents; and my lord Joab, and the servants of my lord, are encamped in the open fields; shall I then go into mine house, to eat and to drink, and to lie with my wife? as thou livest, and as thy soul liveth, I will not do this thing.”

The verse isn’t about the shape of the earth, but that they encamped on a flat area in the open fields.  The fact that it had to clarify that the area was flat, tells you that most of the land around it was not flat.

Creation Worshippers: Deuteronomy 4:19, Deuteronomy 17:3, 2 Kings 23:5, Jeremiah 8:2

The focus of the verses is about the pagan god worship of the sun, moon and stars.  Those heavenly bodies exist on the supposed flat earth model too, so those verses have nothing to do with the shape of the Earth.

God’s Word is ALWAYS Faithful and True: Jeremiah 42:5, Revelation 3:14, Revelation 19:11, Revelation 21:5, Revelation 22:6

Yes He is, but as you’ve seen, the verses that Nathan’s cited do not declare that the Earth is flat; so these verses don’t prove anything in regard to the shape of the Earth.

Yahweh Bless!

Nathan Roberts proclaims those 200 verses prove that the Earth is flat; but as you just saw, none of them are about the shape of the Earth.  

He made false proclamations, which the verses do not prove out.

Nathan, you are the one who should repent, who should apologize to all of the people who you have deceived, who should take down their website, and stop selling books!

The rising moon proves the globe earth, not the flat earth

{ 8 comments… read them below or add one }

Christopher December 2, 2017 at 12:09 am

I have a rebuttal request for you if you don’t mind me asking.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H-tUzFbcKZM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8a9u4m0aW4

Reply

David December 2, 2017 at 12:34 am

You want me to watch a 58 minute flat earth video and rebut every point they make? No thanks, I’ve got better things to do. And even if I did so, would you believe me? Most people who comment on this website are flat earthers, who aren’t really looking for proofs that the Earth is a globe.

As for the NASA moon landing, I believe that it was faked, and they used the money for covert operations. But that doesn’t prove that the Earth is flat, it just proves that .gov is corrupt.

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Christopher December 2, 2017 at 1:36 am

I just want to know what you make of their arguments and if they hold any actual weight. I’m the kind of guy who needs to hear both sides of the argument. But if you don’t have the time I’ll be out of your hair.

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David December 2, 2017 at 1:53 am

Christopher, since you’ve watched the video, what is your conclusion?

It states that by the end of the video, one will believe that the Earth is geocentric. If you’ve read the home page of this website, I clearly state that I am open to the geocentric view. But being geocentric does not prove that it’s flat.

I’ll put the video in my queue to watch, but it won’t be anytime soon, as I’m busy with other projects. When it starts off by mocking people, that’s a turn off to me, just saying.

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Christopher December 2, 2017 at 2:34 am

My personal conclusion ? Not to much to worry about, from my experiance you hear one of their arguments you hear em all but they keep coming up with something new it’s hard to keep track sometimes, what I find concerning is how rapidly this deception gets to people and why. Honestly they’re a heachahe to go through, and this being a psyop.

Thnx for your time. I won’t bother you further.

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David December 2, 2017 at 2:49 am

So then you believe that the earth is globe-shaped?

The more points people make about how the flat earth theory can’t work, the more explanations they have to come up with. Case in point, the sun illuminating the moon causes problems on the flat earth model; so they proclaim that the sun does not illuminate the moon, and that it illuminates itself. But then they introduce more problems, because they can’t explain how the moon illuminates itself, and how it creates the phases.

I don’t feel the need to overcome every flat earther explanation, because I can see enough evidence to know that the Earth is curved, not flat.

Yeah, the flat earth videos are a headache to go through, which is why I didn’t jump at the chance to watch a 58-minute video, that starts by mocking people. 🙂

I’ll post a comment about it when I get a chance to watch it.

Reply

Christopher December 2, 2017 at 11:56 am

What’s worse is reading their comments, and seeing the cult like mentality the victims of this psyop have ? I’m just trying to wrap my head around it, trying to understand how or why people get sucked in so easily.

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David December 3, 2017 at 5:11 pm

Agreed Christopher! I researched whether the earth is flat because some facebook friends were proclaiming it; and when I proved out that it’s not flat and published my findings on this website, they condemned me and ended the friendship. Sad story!

I think that when you get awakened to the many deceptions in this world, that you become suspicious of everything; and I get that, because so much is fake.

I think that people want to believe that they have been shown special, insider knowledge; so the flat earth theory appeals to them in that regard.

And I think that people don’t have good logic or discernment skills anymore. If someone reads this rebuttal of Nathan Roberts, they can see that the 200+ verses that he says prove that the earth is flat, do not prove that at all.

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